16 July 2017
Spare part
On the O.E.M. position installation, the rear right engine mounting.
A 1996 discussion:
" Hop Kits
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========
Editor/Authors:
Jan Vandenbrande & Randy Walterz
Date: Oct 1, 1996
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Date: Oct 1, 1996
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Problem:
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-Driving on certain types of road with ondulations roughly the size
of the car (ie, poured concrete highways), at certain speeds the
right front of the car will start hopping up and down. Many
of the SoKal (LA) freeways are unfortunately of this type (worst is the
110 N starting at the 105), which is one of the road I unfortunately
frequent.
This
is especially noticable if you have a stiffer suspension.
It feels like a gorilla jumping up and down on your hood.
The shaking is so bad, that my 1 year old daughter uses it to modulate
her voice: waw-waw-waw-waw-waw
It feels like a gorilla jumping up and down on your hood.
The shaking is so bad, that my 1 year old daughter uses it to modulate
her voice: waw-waw-waw-waw-waw
Many 4
cyl A2 based cars with hydraulic mounts have this problem to
some degree. If you have regular shift linkages (vs cable linkages)
you will also see the stick shift move violently from side to side.
VR6 Corrados do not seem to have this problem, they have stiffer
and different mounts.
some degree. If you have regular shift linkages (vs cable linkages)
you will also see the stick shift move violently from side to side.
VR6 Corrados do not seem to have this problem, they have stiffer
and different mounts.
Solution:
---------
VW realized this problem (after numerous complaints, and also thanks
to the help of Randy Walterz--DSP Solo II racer) and installed a Hop
kit in some of their later A2 (8V?) 16V GTIs and GLIs.
---------
VW realized this problem (after numerous complaints, and also thanks
to the help of Randy Walterz--DSP Solo II racer) and installed a Hop
kit in some of their later A2 (8V?) 16V GTIs and GLIs.
It's a
small shock absorber that goes from the passenger side shock tower
to the rear of the engine block, and it dampens the vibrations.
The tricky part is to get the two brackets!
to the rear of the engine block, and it dampens the vibrations.
The tricky part is to get the two brackets!
Here are
*roughly* the numbers for a Jetta, but I believe they are
the same for all 1800-2000cc 4 cylinder blocks on A2 cars:
the same for all 1800-2000cc 4 cylinder blocks on A2 cars:
Bracket
(1) # 191 199 535 (to shock
tower-gotta drill hole)
Lower Bracket (1) # ??? ??? ??? (To engine block)
Damper (1) # 191 199 543A
Locknut (3) # 90074401 (These are M8 lock nuts)
Bolt (1) # 0104503
Bolt (1) # 01023911
Bolt (1) # 0103609
Lower Bracket (1) # ??? ??? ??? (To engine block)
Damper (1) # 191 199 543A
Locknut (3) # 90074401 (These are M8 lock nuts)
Bolt (1) # 0104503
Bolt (1) # 01023911
Bolt (1) # 0103609
Note
that these nos are from Randy, and I think his prototype is
a tad different from the unit I have on my G60 now. His did not have
the lower bracket but instead bolts the damper directly to
the block. The only part no that I have is from the damper,
which is the same as his.
a tad different from the unit I have on my G60 now. His did not have
the lower bracket but instead bolts the damper directly to
the block. The only part no that I have is from the damper,
which is the same as his.
G60
Retrofit
------------
This hop kit was designed for A2 Jettas and Golfs, but also fits on
(my 1990) G60 Corrados, with surprisingly little work:
------------
This hop kit was designed for A2 Jettas and Golfs, but also fits on
(my 1990) G60 Corrados, with surprisingly little work:
I
bought a hop kit, a small shock absorber with two brackets,
of a 16V GLI from Bugworld. The shock absorber mounts between
the passenger side shock tower and the engine block (below the
exhaust manifold).
of a 16V GLI from Bugworld. The shock absorber mounts between
the passenger side shock tower and the engine block (below the
exhaust manifold).
Last
night I installed it and it was a total breeze. It's a perfect
fit! You do have to move some of the fuel and vacuum tubes around,
but they are all made from rubber so no problem.
fit! You do have to move some of the fuel and vacuum tubes around,
but they are all made from rubber so no problem.
The
bolts for the lower bracket are already there in the block,
2 of the 3 bolts for the upper bracket are also there.
I still need to drill a 3rd hole in
the side of the shock tower and use an 8mm nutset, the only way I
know of adding a tapped hole in sheet metal (same thing what
Neuspeed uses for its upper stress bars). I supose you could
also use a bolt at the other side, but a nut set is nicer because it
reinforces the hole, and it's of course so much neater and cooler.
2 of the 3 bolts for the upper bracket are also there.
I still need to drill a 3rd hole in
the side of the shock tower and use an 8mm nutset, the only way I
know of adding a tapped hole in sheet metal (same thing what
Neuspeed uses for its upper stress bars). I supose you could
also use a bolt at the other side, but a nut set is nicer because it
reinforces the hole, and it's of course so much neater and cooler.
Because
of limited space, you cannot get a drill in there from
the engine bay, so I drilled a pilot hole using the flexshaft of my
Dremmel tool, and dropped my front strut to drill a
1/2" hole from the wheel well side (1/2" if you use the nutset).
A 90 degree drill attachment
may have worked if you have a short enough drill bit.
(Dropping the strut does not require disassembling the strut, just
loosening the top nut, and you know how much fun that can be if you dont
have the right tool. Hint: A 7/8" oxygen sensor tool works).
the engine bay, so I drilled a pilot hole using the flexshaft of my
Dremmel tool, and dropped my front strut to drill a
1/2" hole from the wheel well side (1/2" if you use the nutset).
A 90 degree drill attachment
may have worked if you have a short enough drill bit.
(Dropping the strut does not require disassembling the strut, just
loosening the top nut, and you know how much fun that can be if you dont
have the right tool. Hint: A 7/8" oxygen sensor tool works).
I went
on a test drive after that, and I dont have that annoying hop any more.
The
Gorilla is dead.
Instead,
the car feels more solid, and, this may be a bit odd, it's
as though I installed stiffer shocks up front. Any unevenness in
the road feels less dampened, and I guess it's because the engine
is now much stiffer sprung thereby serving less as a counter weight
to absorb bumps.
The car does feel more contollable under these conditions because
the car follows the road instead of dancing to its own tune.
Power is also transmitted a bit more direct, less slack being taken
up by the jujube engine mounts. There may be a slight increase in
noise, or rather, the tone has changed (deeper) rather than the
amplitude. I also speculate that this enhancement will increase
my engine mount life because some of the oscilatory stress is reduced.
as though I installed stiffer shocks up front. Any unevenness in
the road feels less dampened, and I guess it's because the engine
is now much stiffer sprung thereby serving less as a counter weight
to absorb bumps.
The car does feel more contollable under these conditions because
the car follows the road instead of dancing to its own tune.
Power is also transmitted a bit more direct, less slack being taken
up by the jujube engine mounts. There may be a slight increase in
noise, or rather, the tone has changed (deeper) rather than the
amplitude. I also speculate that this enhancement will increase
my engine mount life because some of the oscilatory stress is reduced.
In any case, this is definitely a good investment (35$ + 7$ship + 6$
for 8mm nutset & 1 8mm bolt & 2 8mm self locking nuts) IF you have
this problem.
Note
that installation may vary on other cars.
Good
luck.
-Now that you mentioned this, I remember a friend of
mine has an
86 GTI and he got this installed for free from the dealer! Now this
was a while ago, so maybe they don't do it for free any more, but it
wouldn't hurt to try. The reason that he got this installed was for RPM
fluctuations on uneven roads.
And since you mentioned that the car felt better, or firmer, maybe that
is why he kept kicking my ass on the autocross course!
Hmmm.
NAAAH, he was just better then I.
Ralf
86 GTI and he got this installed for free from the dealer! Now this
was a while ago, so maybe they don't do it for free any more, but it
wouldn't hurt to try. The reason that he got this installed was for RPM
fluctuations on uneven roads.
And since you mentioned that the car felt better, or firmer, maybe that
is why he kept kicking my ass on the autocross course!
Hmmm.
NAAAH, he was just better then I.
Ralf
-The above
numbers are the newer version's numbers, but
it is a little different than the one Jan just got, and that's why
there's no lower bracket listed; it doesn't use one since the
longer damper bolts directly to the block. Turns out your
Bugworld-bought 16v Hopkit is similar to the original 86
prototype on my 85 GTi, with the short damper attaching
to a small bracket that's bolted to the block with 2 short
allen-head bolts.
it is a little different than the one Jan just got, and that's why
there's no lower bracket listed; it doesn't use one since the
longer damper bolts directly to the block. Turns out your
Bugworld-bought 16v Hopkit is similar to the original 86
prototype on my 85 GTi, with the short damper attaching
to a small bracket that's bolted to the block with 2 short
allen-head bolts.
But
the one on my Jetta (that i bought from the VW Parts Dept
in 1994) is different and as you noted, bolts directly to a hole
in the block with a special long bolt, and there is no lower
bracket listed (and not available according to VW) and the
damper itself is longer. Only the longer one is available new,
so the wrecking yard is the best bet for the shorter 16v version.
I don't think the shorter 16v version is available from the
dealer anymore, just the longer one as listed above.
in 1994) is different and as you noted, bolts directly to a hole
in the block with a special long bolt, and there is no lower
bracket listed (and not available according to VW) and the
damper itself is longer. Only the longer one is available new,
so the wrecking yard is the best bet for the shorter 16v version.
I don't think the shorter 16v version is available from the
dealer anymore, just the longer one as listed above.
I
measured the length of both car's dampers and found the
original one has a body length of 4-3/8", but the newer one
on the Jetta has a 6" body, and the piston is sticking farther
out of the body as well. This one doesn't seem as effective
as the shorter one on my GTi, and the lack of a lower bracket
changes the angle on the damper a little, maybe that's the
reason why it feels different. I think the longer one is the
superseded version of the shorter original one. This was
the only type the dealer has on record, and supposedly
replaces the original type like on my GTi and the 16vs.
The part # for my early prototype's damper is no longer
a good number, and is superseded to the one listed above.
But it IS a different and longer damper.
original one has a body length of 4-3/8", but the newer one
on the Jetta has a 6" body, and the piston is sticking farther
out of the body as well. This one doesn't seem as effective
as the shorter one on my GTi, and the lack of a lower bracket
changes the angle on the damper a little, maybe that's the
reason why it feels different. I think the longer one is the
superseded version of the shorter original one. This was
the only type the dealer has on record, and supposedly
replaces the original type like on my GTi and the 16vs.
The part # for my early prototype's damper is no longer
a good number, and is superseded to the one listed above.
But it IS a different and longer damper.
Bottom
line is don't mix and match parts from the two versions,
get the whole thing complete. The upper shocktower bracket
looks like it's slightly different too......
get the whole thing complete. The upper shocktower bracket
looks like it's slightly different too......
>>The bolts for the lower bracket are already
there in the block,
Actually
the two bolt *holes* are already in the block, and these
will need the threads cleaned up with a proper tap (M8 x .125 i
think) before screwing any new bolts into them. I broke the bolt off
in the block because the threads were gunked up badly after 170K
of exposure, and it took me several hours to get the broken bolt
out of the block, and required removing all the motormounts
and dropping the whole engine and tranny assembly to get at that
broken bolt !! Run a tap through em beforehand or you'll be sorry!
will need the threads cleaned up with a proper tap (M8 x .125 i
think) before screwing any new bolts into them. I broke the bolt off
in the block because the threads were gunked up badly after 170K
of exposure, and it took me several hours to get the broken bolt
out of the block, and required removing all the motormounts
and dropping the whole engine and tranny assembly to get at that
broken bolt !! Run a tap through em beforehand or you'll be sorry!
-Makes
a bigger difference than one would think. If someone doesn't
feel an immediate improvement then he has no feel for his automobile.
And we all know that we do have a feel for our VWs, every little
wiggle and bounce. Good description of the improvements there Jan !!
feel an immediate improvement then he has no feel for his automobile.
And we all know that we do have a feel for our VWs, every little
wiggle and bounce. Good description of the improvements there Jan !!
- Installation
should be about the same for all A2 cars, depending
on which version of the kit one gets. I suggest getting the kit with
the shorter damper and the lower bracket from the 16v. The
longer version may not clear the backside of the timing belt
cover since it bolts directly to the block. The damper lasts
forever so even an old one will still be in good condition.
I saw Jan's installation on his Corrado G60 and it looks
like it came from the factory that way, it fits perfectly.
Remember to re-tap the threads in the block first !
on which version of the kit one gets. I suggest getting the kit with
the shorter damper and the lower bracket from the 16v. The
longer version may not clear the backside of the timing belt
cover since it bolts directly to the block. The damper lasts
forever so even an old one will still be in good condition.
I saw Jan's installation on his Corrado G60 and it looks
like it came from the factory that way, it fits perfectly.
Remember to re-tap the threads in the block first !
Randy
Walters
85 GTi w/early hopkit
86 GLi w/later hopkit
85 GTi w/early hopkit
86 GLi w/later hopkit
-They
were only installed for free in 85 and 86, and only then if
the customer complained too much about excessive engine
movement. I supposedly got the first one back in 85. Starting
in the 87 model year they were installed at the factory on most
87 8v and 16v cars, but not all for some reason.
the customer complained too much about excessive engine
movement. I supposedly got the first one back in 85. Starting
in the 87 model year they were installed at the factory on most
87 8v and 16v cars, but not all for some reason.
Well
it does help contol the excessive engine movements during
autocross but not to the point that it would make the car faster.
autocross but not to the point that it would make the car faster.
Randy"
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Well, when I bought Passatitsa, this "torque damper" was factory installed but out of order, with the two silent blocks in a very bad condition.
There was coming a strange noise at idling, too, because of the silent blocks damage.
So I decided that this object does nothing and I took it out.
How much wrong I was!
06 June 2019
From the beginning of the year 2019, I am running hydraulics all around.
Much smoother performance, in exchange for less durability, as it is supposed to be.
06 June 2019
From the beginning of the year 2019, I am running hydraulics all around.
Much smoother performance, in exchange for less durability, as it is supposed to be.
drivers side
passengers side
front
30 July 2021
15000 km after: FAILED. (FEBI). (Yes, just 15000 km).
The engine vibrated severely.
So I am back to the OEM solution with the rubber mount, (original), and the torque damper.
(For the rear right).
50000 km after: FAILED (TOPRUN).
As for the front, I put another hydraulic mount, (SWAG which looks exactly the same as the TOPRUN), changing the four silent blocks of the front cross member, too.
The rear left mount, (gearbox), is still a hydraulic, (CORTECO), which seems that plays a very limited role in terms of transmission noise, so I am going to change it with an, (original), rubber which looks much stronger just for the peace of mind, since, 50000 km after, CORTECO seems to be ok..
The rear left bonded rubber mount with reinforced brackets.
The problem with the right hydraulic mount is that, externally, seems in perfect condition, although it is shortened 1-1.5 cm and makes a clicking sound inside. So it is very difficult to spot the problem when malfunctioning mounded on the car.
On the contrary, the front hydraulic mount collapses and spreads the internal oil all around making it easy.
Yes, the three point mounting is the supreme solution. It is mea culpa, though, that I equalized the heavier and 4x4 Passat Syncro to a Corrado 2wd.
